mtbc: maze N (blue-white)
Mark T. B. Carroll ([personal profile] mtbc) wrote2016-02-04 07:44 pm
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Independence referenda

It may be that in a few months the UK will vote on the question of whether to remain in the EU. If David Cameron fails to negotiate strong national controls against immigration or welfare for immigrants then there is the prospect of a vote to leave. That would probably provoke another vote in Scotland about remaining in the UK, with the no votes boosted by those wishing to remain in the EU. It is plausible that Scotland will no longer be in both the UK and the EU.

I like the idea of being able to move to somewhere like France or Germany though it now looks less likely to ever happen. I would like my children to have some stability during their full-time education. Perturbations of the current situation could be a great inconvenience for me: my position at work is funded largely by UK and European Union sources and I have no reason to expect Scottish government funding to replace that so I may find either vote being for independence to be deleteriously life-changing.

While I am hardly an expert on European governance I am disappointed by having the distinct impression that many people don't know who their parliamentary representative is partly because it matters little as in practical terms the European Parliament is underpowered in comparison with the European Commission. I am also disappointed by the great diversity in how assiduously member states actually enforce European law. Voting for membership of the EU could unfortunately seem like an endorsement of the EU as it presently is. Though, not so badly as a vote for independence for Scotland from the UK could be interpreted as a feeling that the Scottish National Party should have their hands even more strongly on the Scottish levers of power.

A greater source of conflict is the sense that the European Union as it is is a mess: the member states are too strong and separate for the EU to live long and prosper. The Eurozone crisis and the Syrian refugee crisis have definitely been throwing some of the faultlines into sharp relief. If the cultural differences can tolerate it then I believe the EU would do better as a superstate with more fiscal and political integration to make it more like the USA than a free trade and visa area. The UK may be as a millstone impeding the EU in finding its way to that workable state.

So while I would like Scotland to remain in both the UK and the EU I wouldn't want that to be taken as support for the EU as currently realized and I wonder if the UK's influence isn't overall a bad thing for the EU.
mindstalk: (Default)

[personal profile] mindstalk 2016-02-05 06:11 am (UTC)(link)
The UK is at least innocent in the eurocrisis, though of course you had Osborne inflicting austerity on you even without the excuse of a debt crisis.
gerald_duck: (unimpressed)

[personal profile] gerald_duck 2016-02-05 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
My objection to EU membership is far more fundamental.

We don't have a written constitution in the UK, but we do have an overarching sense of propriety.

If I lend you my lawnmower, you make sure you can return it when the time comes. You don't give it to a Belgian.

Similarly, when we elect a government, it should make sure that when it leaves office it can return to us the powers that we have temporarily vested in it. Saying "sorry, we signed those powers over to the EU" is unacceptable.

And yet, that's what happened with the Maastricht Treaty, which is the point at which I started to feel we ought to leave the EU. The Lisbon Treaty fiasco cemented this view.

We are faced with an EU that wants to take powers from our national government, and a succession of national governments that are willing to hand them over. Sure, we could try to put things on a legislative footing where that can't happen any more, which requires a referendum before powers are ceded, but I'm worried about remaining in a political union which has such intent. We don't want to spend our lives fighting bureaucrats who are looking for loopholes.

The late great Tony Benn put it rather well: "The rights that are entrusted to us are not for us to give away. Even if I agree with everything that is proposed, I cannot hand away powers lent to me for five years by the people of Chesterfield. I just could not do it. It would be theft of public rights."
mindstalk: (Default)

[personal profile] mindstalk 2016-02-06 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I think that's a pretty static view. Ideally the question would be of moving power from the (sort of) democratic government of Westminster to a democratic EU government. Yes, the national level would lose power, and votes would be diluted, but in exchange you'd be a citizen in a greater polity, one better able to make decisions good for all Europeans.

So it wouldn't be a theft of public rights, it'd be moving and consolidating those rights at a higher level, hopefully with popular approval first.

Fundamentally it's whether you stick to seeing yourself as British, French, Polish first, or move to seeing yourselves as Europeans.

Of course, it'd help if the EU were more democratic and less a coalition of governments, but the fundamental problem seems to be that the citizens of European countries don't want to see themselves and each other as Europeans.
gerald_duck: (loonie)

Re: Unappealing medicine

[personal profile] gerald_duck 2016-02-07 01:15 am (UTC)(link)
I see three main things Labour got very wrong before and during the financial crisis:
  • Reckless expansion of the use of public-private partnerships, which in effect create a disguised debt which doesn't show up on the balance sheet (instead of borrowing the money to build a hospital, have a private company build it and lease it to the taxpayer, who gets to keep it at the end of the lease term — looks like a debt, smells like a debt, isn't officially a debt).
  • Carping on about how "prudent" they were being, while being spendthrift.
  • Overspending dramatically when the crisis hit

It's instructive to look at Greece to see how badly things can go wrong if a government tries to borrow and spend its way out of a crisis. Greece has the impediment that it's in the Eurozone; we don't have that problem, but we have the rather bigger problem that international finance is a major component of our economy.

If you look at this graph, there's a major step in our net debt. OK, it's not as ruinously vast as that caused by two world wars, but the current blip looks a lot more like an unforced error to the financial markets. And, of course, the current government now has to service that debt as well as keep the lights on in various government departments.

It feels to me as though the present Chancellor has done a pretty good job of juggling several very angry weasels. The cuts may be very high profile, but they're actually a lot shallower than by rights they should be. Our creditors haven't quite come banging on the door.

We're treading water and gambling that we can fix things properly when the recession is over and the next boom comes. It's been a long, long wait.

That doesn't feel like ignorant idiocy to me…
gerald_duck: (mallard)

[personal profile] gerald_duck 2016-02-07 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
It would be a theft of public rights. It is plain wrong to perform that kind of restructuring without a referendum.

I, a voter, have vested power in my MP. In due course, my MP must give that power back. It's not his to consolidate it to a higher level without my permission and a vote for him in a General Election is not permission. (Not that I voted for him, anyway.)

But now, because politicians have abused the public trust in that way, as and when there is a referendum, I will vote to leave the EU. I feel we're better off without an institution that has so little respect for the people of Europe that, when their plan for a European Constitution faltered in referenda, they decided to re-brand it as a "treaty" and cajole national governments into rubberstamping it without a plebiscite.